A Conversation with Erin Fischer – Part 1

Encouragement, Leading Ladies, Podcast

Don’t cut your own bangs episode 30.

A conversation with Erin Fischer – Part 1.

Danielle Ireland:
Hello, this is Danielle Ireland and you are listening to Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs. And we have a really special treat for you today. We’re kind of breaking the rules this episode featuring Erin Fischer. I got to admit, Erin kind of flipped the script on me. She and I had a conversation a few weeks ago and she just kind of basically sat me down and was like, “Listen, I need to interview you because I feel like you’re not talking about yourself enough. And I want to hear more from you than I want to hear for myself.” And I was a little nervous at first, but I know that I was in capable hands and I think the episode ended up being pretty incredible. And don’t worry, there are still plenty of great conversations that feature Erin and her expertise, because you’re really going to want to get to know her too. She has an incredible story. She’s built an empowering business.

Danielle Ireland:
It’s called the Leadership Training Studio. You’re going to want to know more about her and you’re going to get a great mix of not only what she does so well because she basically applies all of her skills to me, pushing me to make me think more. But she also has some great nuggets too, from her own life. I can not wait for you to hear. So sit back, relax and enjoy. Erin Fischer.

Erin Fischer:
I’m ready.

Danielle Ireland:
You’re ready? Okay. Erin Fischer of the Leadership and Training Studio. Welcome to Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs.

Erin Fischer:
Thanks for having me.

Danielle Ireland:
It’s so nice to have you. And so you’re also the author of Radically Unfinished. You’re a speaker, you’re a trainer, you’re an author, you’re a leadership nerd, self-proclaimed leadership nerd. And I’m so honored to have you here today.

Erin Fischer:
I’m glad to talk to you. And I push this because I actually think you’ve got some brilliant things to share. So somehow I convinced you that it would be fun to talk about you today.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
And less about me.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep. So this is basically what happened. So listeners, we were going on a walk. So Erin had this great idea, this really fun idea for May that she wanted to go on a walk with, was it 30 different women?

Erin Fischer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Danielle Ireland:
In the month of May. So she went on 30 walks with 30… Well we’re still technically in May, but when you listen to this episode, we’ll be out of May. But 30 walks with 30 women in May to have just really like women’s centered empowered, connected conversations. And I was honored to be one of those women that you went on a walk with and we had a great conversation. And you were asking me a lot of great questions, which as a therapist and a podcast host, I’m more comfortable asking the questions than answering. So it was a really great exercise for me. And just an opportunity to like, oh yeah, what do I think about this stuff? And so you were basically like, “I’m going to come on your podcast and I’m going to interview you. We’re going to flip the script.” And so here we are.

Erin Fischer:
Here we are. One of my favorite things that you talked about that I wrote up as part of our conversation is that for me, I study confidence for women.

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
And you said to me that you have had confidence since the second you walked into this world.

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
And then you lost it.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And you had to do some retraining and rethinking about how to find it again. And what I loved about it, it was so honest, it was so raw, and I think women can relate to it. What I know is that girls lose their confidence around sixth grade.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
Something happens in sixth and seventh grade. They depart from sports, they depart from their friend group, they start acting like fools on top of it. Check out all of my nieces. There’s no doubt sixth grade does something wild to the inside of your body. But it was more than that for you. And I was so curious and then I asked you a few other questions and we got into this piece about your three P’s.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And I said, “This is a whole podcast.” Beyond a walk.

Danielle Ireland:
You’re like, “Stop talking. Shh shh. We’re going to save it. We’re going to save it till there’s a microphone.” And so yeah. And here we are today.

Erin Fischer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah. And I love how passionate you are about deepening your understanding of confidence and then also translating that into actionable, trainable material for other people. Because I don’t think I’ve ever really thought about my own confidence before. I mean I certainly know when I don’t feel confident, and I definitely know when I feel insecure. But I don’t think I ever looked at it as something that I consciously wanted to try to increase or get tapped into, or in touch with. Which is strange because I feel so emotionally driven and I think my career is so emotionally driven, but I never really looked at confidence specifically that way, which really I think led into our three P conversation.

Danielle Ireland:
Which, let me explain briefly because I feel like I keep talking about it and I don’t know if I’ve thoroughly explained it in this episode, what it is. The three P’s for me are permission, perfection and procrastination. So I feel like these three P’s are for me and not only me, but it was an inspired idea that came from my own struggles. When I’m about to step into a brave new challenge. And I’m about to volunteer myself or sign up for something that maybe I feel under prepared for, let someone know how I feel. So have something that requires bravery or courage, confidence, vulnerability on my part. The things that usually are in my way, the roadblocks and the hurdles that I have to overcome. Fall under either permission, giving myself permission to do it. Perfectionism and then procrastination. And so I’m interested in how the three relates and for this entire season, every episode I’ve been asking people about them, but I haven’t spent a lot of time really exploring own relationship with them. So enter Erin Fischer.

Erin Fischer:
Well, so one of the things that I had shared with you that I think sparked your conversation with me about the three P’s, is I had been recounting a story from one of my dear friends whose daughter is very, very good at soccer. She is exceptional at soccer. And what I said to you, is that my friend had said to me, that she came to her mom and said, “Hey hey, I’m interested in doing track and field.” And Amy said, “Oh no. Oh, that sounds ridiculous. I don’t want you to be in track and field.” I don’t know if it’s because it’s another sport, it’s another Saturday away, whatever it was. And her daughter said, “No, listen, I really want to do this.” Well her daughter, not so good at track and field as she is-

Danielle Ireland:
At soccer.

Erin Fischer:
In soccer, right?

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
And so what Amy was basically saying to me is that her sweet daughter then had kind of an aha moment and concurrently a meltdown about the fact that she was not so good at a sport. And Amy’s said, “listen enough, I don’t have time for the tears and the wallowing in the fact that you’re not good at it. You can’t be good at everything.” And then when Amy told me that story, it was kind of a light bulb moment for me because it links back to confidence.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
And then it jumped right into you for this piece of perfection.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
Which, we also, we kind of admired this young lady because she was like, “I don’t care. I’m going to do it.” And then she was like, “But I wanted to be perfect at it.”

Danielle Ireland:
Right.

Erin Fischer:
So that’s what linked this whole piece of like what do we tell a little girls and what do we tell women our own age about can they try it all, and do they have to be good at it all? The answer is, no..

Danielle Ireland:
Well I think that a lot of… And again, I don’t know exactly where this begins and you’re probably right, there is something about that like preteen, middle school, sixth, seventh, eighth grade range, where it’s like we just all kind of go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And it’s like just hold on and just grin and bear it until we move through that phase. But I think that women, and this might be an overgeneralization, but I do feel like women have a hard time letting themselves be messy. Because, and I think that that is maybe the, in opposition of perfection. So perfectionism is, I know what to expect. I know how to respond. I know how I’m going to look, and I know how it’s going to feel. And then what we often run into when we do really incredible things like your friend Amy’s daughter did, which is, hey, I have no idea if I’m going to be good at this thing, but I’m going to try it.

Danielle Ireland:
That’s going to be uncertain, vulnerable, messy, and challenging. And so I do think that… She took the leap, but then she hit the mess and she ultimately hit the realization like, hey, I’m not going to be maybe as good at this as I was at this other thing and now am I less interested in it? And I think that sometimes, what perfectionism and how perfectionism and procrastination relate. And I know that this is definitely how it works in my head is that unless I know it’s going to be perfect, I don’t want to try. And so sometimes it’ll keep me from even launching, which is where I enter in permission, which is can I give myself permission to not be perfect?

Danielle Ireland:
Which therefore helps me kind of overcome that failure to launch. That holding myself back and pausing for too long, which can become procrastination. And again, I don’t know which P comes first, but I definitely see how they interconnect. But I think to bring it back to your story, which I loved, is that it’s messy. Struggling is messy, right? Emotions are messy, relationships are messy. And I think we like things nice and clean and compartmentalized. And I think more than anything, we like knowing what to expect.

Erin Fischer:
So here’s my first question for you. What do you need permission to do right now? And while you’re thinking about it, let me tell you that Nikki Bush, she’s one of our friends.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
She was asking me to do a Women in Sales event, which is really out of the scope of the work that I normally do, but it’s something I had been thinking about for a long time because she asked me all sorts of sales questions. The minute that she said, “I need you to do this.” She gave me permission to just start the whole thing.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And it was… I’m an adult, I’m 42 almost 43 years old. There are a lot of things that I put myself out on the ledge to do before, but there are some things that if they’re brand new, they’re fresh.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
I’ve never explored before. I feel like there may be some, an opportunity to really fail big. Then I’m unknowingly, I’ve been waiting around for permission. So when you said this to me just two weeks ago, I thought, I wonder if that’s my role, is sometimes I need permission from other people.

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
And not approval, but just to say, permission to do it.

Danielle Ireland:
Right. It isn’t an approval, because it’s not like someone’s saying… It’s not like… I don’t know, because you’re right, it is different. Permission, it’s like go for it. We need it, like go. And that’s different than approval. That’s different than someone saying, “I like it.”

Erin Fischer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Yeah. When you get to your forties you don’t worry so much about whether people like, it, this, that, you, as much as you do in your 30s and 20s. But there is this piece about saying, “Should I try this?”

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
“Am I ready? Am I good?” So here’s the question back to you. What do you need permission to do right now? What are you feeling stuck on?

Danielle Ireland:
Oh okay, this is good and you can’t… So listeners, you can’t see this or know this, but I probably talked about it enough for anyone who’s listened to this for a while that I start to sweat when I get vulnerable. So here comes the sweat and I’m wearing a light gray tee shirt, which is the worst possible thing you can wear when you sweat.

Erin Fischer:
If it makes you feel better, I totally forgot to put deodorant on today.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
So I’m going to start putting my arms back on this chair. Air everything out.

Danielle Ireland:
We’re just going to get a fan on us. So I came up with this idea to create a guided journal to offer to clients and even not necessarily therapy clients, but anyone who is interested in self exploration, self actualization that wants to get more in touch with their feelings, but maybe doesn’t know exactly how that works.

Danielle Ireland:
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve turned to journal to kind of process my own thoughts and feelings. And I took for granted that that was a process that just had always been natural to me. And so I’d get journals as gifts for friends. And I’d recommend them for clients, journal, journal, journal. And it was only maybe within the last six or seven months that it occurred to me. So I would follow up with people that I’d either offered journals to, or suggested they pick up a journal.

Danielle Ireland:
And I ask how they’re doing and they say, “You know, I bought it but I don’t know what to do with it.” And that’s kind of when the light bulb started to click for me, is I can create… Because I give people questions and personalized prompts. I’m like, “Oh, I can make something like this, I can package something like this for someone that could be really beneficial.”

Danielle Ireland:
And these ideas were coming to me. I mean all the ideas were coming and so I basically have like 80% of it done, but now I’m stuck. This reminds me back of when I initially thought I wanted to make a podcast. So I didn’t know the technology, I didn’t know the software, I didn’t know, would anybody even want to talk to me and then would anybody want to listen? So now it’s all those exact same stories, I don’t know how to… How would I edit it, how would I lay it out? Is what I need to talk to a graphic designer? Would I publish it? Would it be a PDF? And so now I’m basically, I think paused on all the details and yeah. And so I haven’t done anything with it for about a month and I’m kind of beating myself up about it a little bit.

Erin Fischer:
Okay. So I have to link then this next piece, you went from permission to perfectionism real fast.

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
And I think that even this morning I made a post about the sales stream that we’re doing and after I read it, I go, “This doesn’t really do the job that I want it to do, but I’m so glad I just put it out.” So sometimes it’s the perfectionism means that we’re just not making a move because we want it to be in this state that does not exist.

Danielle Ireland:
Oh, right. I want it to be a journal that Oprah’s like, “I’m going to give this to all my friends because it’s…” Right. It’s just, right. So this is definitely… This is giving myself permission, which is essentially how I kind of pushed through my procrastination and actually made my podcast, a year and a half ago. But I need to give myself permission to let this not be perfect because it won’t be, it just won’t be. But knowing that conceptually, I’m still like, yeah, I don’t know. I’d rather… And so then what I’m doing, another great way that I procrastinate is I’ll busy myself with other very important things.

Erin Fischer:
Oh sure.

Danielle Ireland:
Like all my planting is done, all my landscaping and planting is done. And I’m like, ah, perfect. I knocked those things off my list. Well, I’m too tired to think about the journal, so I’ll just, I won’t.

Erin Fischer:
So it’s this piece on delay. So we’ve, tons of great ideas, ways to make your business better. You’ve got this thing that you’re really passionate about, but you and I are built from the same cloth of, we are waiting for somebody to tell us to start it and then maybe we’re waiting. We’ve started it, and then maybe we’re waiting to sit in. Well, it’s not exactly the way I dreamed, or Oprah has not called me yet.

Jump into the episode HERE.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
So I’m still going to sit for another month or two months. And then you’re like, I’m not even interested in this anymore. I’ve got another big idea and we’ve let it all swing through.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
So what’s your advice for women in particular who are stuck in one of those two areas?

Danielle Ireland:
Well, I can think of exactly… I mean this could be advice or this could be an experience share. It’s probably both. But I remember what I did when I felt stuck and tripped up on not knowing how to figure out… Well, not that I didn’t know how to figure out. I didn’t know where to even begin with the technological aspects of the podcast. I connected with someone who had created one. And that’s where I met Jenn [Eades 00:16:12] , who now produces my podcast now.

Erin Fischer:
Who we all love, by the way.

Danielle Ireland:
God, Jenn Eades, she’s just wonderful. The Brassy Broadcast. You should all listened to it and subscribe if you haven’t already. And she also has a new podcast out, actually. I’m kicking myself for not remembering the name. I’ll definitely put it in the show notes since we referenced it. But it has to do with jujitsu. She’s in this like Brazilian jujitsu class. So yeah. But anyway, I had a conversation with her and basically told her, this is my idea, but I’m stuck in these areas. And she was like, “Oh, well that’s what I know how to do.” And so then it was basically asking for help and reaching out to someone that knows more than I know. And I haven’t done that yet with this.

Erin Fischer:
So this is the question that I have for myself and I think a lot of women have it as well. Why are we so afraid to ask for help? But we love-

Danielle Ireland:
Giving it.

Erin Fischer:
But somebody calls me and says, “Erin Fischer, can you help me?”

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
Absolutely. I’d be delighted to.

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
I don’t need flowers or a thank you card or anything. All I need is just, it just fills up my little heart to know that somebody needs my help. But we don’t think that the person on the other side is feeling the same way. Saying, “Oh, I can’t ask for help or they’re going to charge me too much, or it’ll be weird and awkward and they’ll think I’m trying to get something for free.”

Danielle Ireland:
Or it’ll be a burden.

Erin Fischer:
Or it’ll be a burden. Oh, even better.

Danielle Ireland:
I don’t want to be a burden on them.And they have enough on their plate. I just don’t want to make my problem their problem. Yeah. Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And I remember in sales training, one of the best piece of advice that I received was go for the no. So actually, another woman that I know, she was required… And I can’t remember the length of time to go for ten no’s a day. So she would have to walk into Starbucks and say, “Any chance I can have this banana for free?” And they’d be like, “No, but you can pay for it for, it’s $2.79.”

Erin Fischer:
And then she’d have to walk to the car wash or drive to the car wash and say, “Hey, any chance that I could get a free car wash today?” Knowing they would say no. She had to get so comfortable in this space of hearing no, that when she went for a big client event, a big sales event, she was so used to them saying no, that she just went for it right away and said, “This may be a no, but you’d be missing out if I didn’t offer my products or services to you.” And I thought, man, I’ve got to get really comfortable with people saying no. And 90% of the time they don’t. you’re not a burden.

Danielle Ireland:
You know what I really like about that is it makes me think about, I think in my own way, I have kind of gone through that with my theater and acting background. I think what’s different for me, sort of that next phase or that next summit of my own growth, is that I got used to rejection when it came to going for a part. And because I had experienced that pretty much from the time I was 13 to when I went to grad school. So let’s say, I don’t know, 15 years. I understood rejection that way. I think what makes the work that I’m doing now feel so different is it feels like an extension or an expression of me. And so I think I’ve made it too precious.

Danielle Ireland:
I’ve made it too precious and that like, oh, if someone rejects helping me with this, they’re not rejecting this, they’re rejecting me. And I was able to kind of compartmentalize that or sort of disassociate that when it was performance. So I love that idea of giving myself opportunities for people to reject me. That would be a good challenge. A hard one, but a really good one.

Erin Fischer:
I think it’s one of the hardest things.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And why people don’t end up with a person of their dreams or the house of their dreams or the job of their dreams is because they’re so afraid of the no.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And so then we circle back to well then you need permission and then it has to be perfect. So the stars have to align.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
And then all of a sudden you can go for it.

Danielle Ireland:
Well it makes me think of the Radically Unfinished women’s event that you had last November that I was so I’m grateful for the opportunity to get to present at. You challenged a young woman in the audience, because my session was specifically on fear and you challenged a young woman… And I think we were actually talking about permission at that particular moment. And I think I asked the audience like who here has a struggle with asking for permission to take time off? And there was a woman who raised her hand. And you sort of in the back of the room were like, “You’re going to do this today. You’re going to ask for this permission today.” And within I think 30 minutes of her reaching out and asking for the time off, she got either a confirmation text or confirmation email. She got the time off.

Danielle Ireland:
But I remember that I could see that look on her face when you… You could say challenged her, but I could also say that’s giving her permission to do it. But you just gently kind of held that mirror up for her and you’re like, “Okay, we’re here to support you through this, but you’re going to do this and it’s going to be done today.” And it was done in 30 minutes.

Erin Fischer:
So I forgot about that story until you reminded me. But that’s what it was. She wanted the Friday between Thanksgiving and the long weekend off and she had not requested it yet. And so we had said to her, “That’s a natural normal day that most people are going to be off. Why haven’t you just sent the email?” What if my supervisor says no?

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
I said, “Well, how are you going to get the day off if you don’t even ask the question?” And she said, “I have no idea.” And I thought to myself, part of that is turning 40, and part of that is also just cheering other women on and saying, “You have the right. If you have vacation days, you have the permission from whom ever you need it from to ask for time off.”

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And so that struck me and I remember feeling like, man, just what do we need to do to help support women so that they don’t feel stuck about, what now would seem like a tiny thing hopefully to her. And certainly to us is asking for permission to get a day off of work that you are entitled to.

Danielle Ireland:
So something that I do for other women, friends, and clients all the time, but of course sometimes I forget to do for myself. So this is a great reminder for me, this conversation, but actually letting… Because usually what happens is when we bump into anxiety, it becomes like a wall and we shut down and we don’t look past, we don’t think past, we just stop. We usually get stuck and we freeze/ or we distract ourselves with other things like me cleaning and organizing and planting. But when someone hits that wall of anxiety, you ask them, okay, well tell me what this is the worst possible thing that would happen. Okay, so and the worst, usually it’s someone saying no, or someone being annoyed with me, or what if they’re annoyed or upset that I even ask? Or what if they think this about me.

Danielle Ireland:
So we start this entire narrative. And so if you can actually brain dump all of these terrible things that you think would happen if you did this thing and then in the very… And almost in the column next to it. Okay, so this happens. What do you do? And usually there’s either nothing you can do. So I love the answer. Well, so what? Okay, so they’re annoyed. Okay, so what? So usually it’s either that or there’s usually an actionable step. So like some people can even go as far as, I lose my job. I asked for time off and my boss said I was ridiculous and I lose my job. And I’m like, “Okay, so let’s stick with that. You lose your job. What do you do?” Well, I guess I’d have to put my resume together. Well, I guess I’d have to probably look for a new job. Okay, so, and then you actually have this action plan for all these things that will never happen, but you have this action plan. So your worst case scenario happens and you know what to do now go do.

Danielle Ireland:
And now that I’m saying this aloud, now I need to let myself do that for myself with this journal. Ah crap. I just talked myself into a corner.

Erin Fischer:
Yeah, you did.

Danielle Ireland:
I did. I did.

Erin Fischer:
You backed right into that.

Danielle Ireland:
Right into that. Oh Lord.

Erin Fischer:
So I call it the movie in your mind.

Danielle Ireland:
Oh that’s good.

Erin Fischer:
So the movie in your mind, like you’re going away with friends and you’ve got this movie in your mind of staying up late, sleeping in late, going to the pool all day. It’s super relaxing and it’s going to be amazing, and then you arrive to someplace warm and everybody’s cranky and tired and fussy. And you can’t reconcile the movie, that dreamy movie that you had in your mind about the perfect new swimsuit that you purchased and the fact that everybody’s miserable and cranky and all the couples are fighting. Conversely, when we go into a situation, the movie in our minds, this is going to be horrible and miserable. A lot of networking situations for me, I hate small talk more than anything else.

Danielle Ireland:
Networking.

Erin Fischer:
So networking is like, it’s going to be miserable. I’m not going to know any of… My friends won’t be there. I’m going to have to make weird, awkward, small talk with people that I don’t even know. I forgot my… I usually forget my business card. And so I’ve got this, I’m making up this movie in my mind that has a protagonist, certainly an antagonist and a villain, and a miserable ending. There’s no, nobody’s happy in the end of this movie that I’ve created. And then I show up and I’m ready to play that movie. And I’m like, dang, I spent all of this energy making a movie up in my mind about was what was going to happen. And none of that was true.

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
And so I have to be really, really mindful of that piece.

Danielle Ireland:
What’s interesting is that you have two… So the movie in your mind actually feeds into two different really important concepts. The first is, is when we have very lofty and high expectations, we have the Nicholas Sparks movie where everyone’s well lit, everyone looks great, hair is just so perfect, perfect, perfect, really cute quippy dialogue. And then the reality doesn’t match the dream. So that’s actually the definition of disappointment, when you have unmet undisclosed expectations. That’s the clinical definition of disappointment. And then the other is sort of the catastrophizing and expecting the worst because you’re preparing yourself. Because we actually, what we falsely believe is that if I rehearse my pain enough, when I experienced the pain, I won’t feel it.

Erin Fischer:
Oh, say that again.

Danielle Ireland:
So we rehearse our pain. So the other movie in your mind of everything’s going to go terrible and this is going to happen to me, and this person is going to come after me, and this is… And then I’m not going to have my business cards. I’m going to lose money on the table because this person’s not going to know how to get in touch with me. You’re preparing for pain, you’re emotionally preparing for pain because what we falsely believe is that when it happens, we either won’t feel it or it feel as bad.

Erin Fischer:
Because we’ve already experienced it.

Danielle Ireland:
Right.

Erin Fischer:
In our mind what you’re saying is that we’re not going to experience it twice.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
For the same thing.

Danielle Ireland:
Well and again it’s not true because the-

Erin Fischer:
Right.

Danielle Ireland:
The reality is, is that until catastrophe strikes or until something really horrific happens, no one actually knows what they’re going to do until it happens. I mean that’s actually why first responders, firefighters, military, there’s so much training and conditioning to help those unique roles enter into chaos, danger in a way that goes against their biology. But that’s a conditioned response, and we subconsciously are trying to condition ourselves all the time to avoid pain. But we’re just hardwired, that’s just not how we’re wired.

Erin Fischer:
So that is probably the best advice I’ve ever heard is that stop-

Danielle Ireland:
What?

Erin Fischer:
Yes.

Danielle Ireland:
Erin Fischer best advice, what?

Erin Fischer:
Here’s what it is, because we are wasting time.

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
We are wasting so much time having responses to things that may or may not happen. And like you said, we have no guarantee of what will happen or not happen.

Danielle Ireland:
Nope.

Erin Fischer:
So don’t waste our time and pre-planning emotions that may not exist.

Danielle Ireland:
And I don’t know, apart from, again, true bootcamp, military style training. I don’t know if we can ever really turn that switch off, but I know what we can do is become aware of it when it’s happening. Because awareness is, in my opinion, awareness is most of the battle. Because we’re so unconsciously aware we don’t even realize that we’re doing it. And then if we become self aware enough to know… Because what will happen, at least for me, is I’ll start playing, I like the language you used to have the movie in your mind that’s so much nicer than all the clinical mumbo jargon that I would probably use. But, so this movie’s playing in my mind of catastrophe, right? This is Armageddon, this is Independence Day. The aliens are attacking.

Erin Fischer:
Yes.

Danielle Ireland:
And it’s the worst case scenario or like anything from the Walking Dead. God, that show gives me anxiety. So it’s the Walking Dead, zombie apocalypse in my mind. But usually externally what I look like is my jaw is slightly agape, and there’s probably drool and I’m staring off into the distance. Because I look frozen on the outside. But there’s all this chaos and turmoil on the outside, which is usually when I’m… And then when it gets really bad, then I get my body busy by focusing on busyness, because I’m trying to dull that chaos movie in my head and so, but then what ends up happening is that once I settle down and calm down again, usually before sleep, which is why we have a hard time turning our minds off before sleep.

Erin Fischer:
Okay.

Danielle Ireland:
The movie comes back.

Erin Fischer:
Oh yes it does.

Danielle Ireland:
Because I’m not busy anymore.

Erin Fischer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Danielle Ireland:
Because I got to lay there and be still with myself and then it’s just right back.

Erin Fischer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
I find that to be true. The worst part of the movie happens in the quietest times.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
That is when I am the best at filmmaking. I have got extras, I have the layers, I’ve got an extra plot, I’ve dropped in there.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
Guess what? None of it’s going to happen. Most likely, none of it’s going to… None of what I could really dream up is going to happen.

Danielle Ireland:
Certainly not to the degree and the drama that we create, but also sometimes what will happen is, I think that’s where self-sabotage comes into play. Because it almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Because this is also like the really kind of crazy, twisted, messy part of just existing, is that we oftentimes without realizing it, we would rather be right… Than, we’d rather experience certainty than uncertainty. And so certainty comes with being right. So if I prove my worst case scenario true, so if I go into a networking event expecting people not to like me, expecting conversations to be awkward, if I’m going in with that unconscious intention or energy already, more than likely I’m going to have awkward encounters and then I get to go, “See, I knew it.”

Erin Fischer:
I told you.

Danielle Ireland:
I knew it. Everyone, everyone that told me just go and have fun. Yeah, no, it was terrible. Just like I knew it would be. And then we can kind of sit back and are feeling rightness and then we just feel miserable for a while. Rather than kind of going in vulnerable, curious with an open heart. Maybe a little hopeful because this is what we risk. When I’m going into a situation, oh God, I’m talking to myself into another corner about this damn journal. Okay. But if I go into a situation slightly hopeful, then I’m risking disappointment. I’m risking, what if I go and hoping this is going to be something just like your sweet friend, Amy’s daughter, brave daughter, I’m going to conquer this track and field. I’m going to conquer this long jump. And oh. And then she experienced disappointment because it wasn’t the positive movie in her mind. So yeah.

Erin Fischer:
So here’s what I know to be true in all over the research that I’ve done about confidence is that experience, the good, the bad, disappointing, the frustrating, the overwhelming, the joyful, all of that experience breeds confidence.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And everybody just wants the joyful part of confidence when you did it right the first time. When you landed everything correctly and it was seamless. And nobody, conversely feels really strongly about all of the heartache, and feedback, and pushback that we’ll get to get us to the place of confidence.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah. Gosh, that’s really making me think about dancing actually, when I taught dance. Yeah. I mean that’s, such really clear and specific and really true advice. That experience breeds confidence because you’re not going to be confident going out on a dance floor and dancing in front of other people if you’ve had two lessons, you’re just not.

Erin Fischer:
Uh-uh (negative).

Danielle Ireland:
Not in the way that you would if you had danced for two years.

Erin Fischer:
Or 12 years.

Danielle Ireland:
Uh-huh (affirmative). Yeah, exactly.

Erin Fischer:
Right.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Because confidence is like muscle memory and when we think about perfectionism, I think that’s probably a muscle memory piece too.

Danielle Ireland:
Oh yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Is that if I do things in only a perfect way, it means that I’ve got a really narrow scope of what I can do. Because I’ve had just enough experience in doing it that I feel comfortable and, but then you’re living this really limited life. Or really limited business and I don’t like to live that way. I like to live a really full life with tons of experiences. So I’ve given myself permission to make as many mistakes as I want to. It’s not that I don’t want things to feel as if I’ve put [inaudible 00:33:21] energy behind them or that I’ve put thought behind them. It just means that if I bring somebody along into Radically Unfinished for instance, and they don’t land their presentation a Ten out of Ten. I am not heartbroken about it at all. What I’m really more excited about is like, damn, that woman was strong enough to get up there and present to all of these other incredible women.

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
And I also find that women are much more kind to each other than we give them credit for.

Danielle Ireland:
I agree. I agree.

Erin Fischer:
So can I transition us into this third P for just a second? Because I’m sure we’ve got a million examples we want to share with all of your listeners, but you talked about this piece on procrastination and you had a really cool twist to this.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Do you remember this piece?

Danielle Ireland:
I do. I can’t take full credit for the twist on procrastination because I actually have to give some credit to my therapist, Brian. So shout out to Brian.

Erin Fischer:
Hey Brian.

Danielle Ireland:
Hey, yep. So I was struggling with procrastination specifically, I think it was actually with my journal. And I had a session with him and I was like, “You know… I just like… Oh…” Because I think what I was preparing myself for was him kind of being hard on me, because that’s usually what I do to myself. To get out of my own way. I’m like come on, you can do. I get tougher and I get angrier with myself. Until eventually I get motivated and take action. And so I was basically laying all the groundwork for him to give me the feedback that I was preparing myself for. Yeah, Danielle, get your head out of your ass and go write that journal, and go, go, go.

Danielle Ireland:
And instead he took all of my sort of spastic energy in and just sat and took a deep breath, and just kind of cocked his head to the side. And thought for a moment and said, “Well what if, what if procrastination is just a part of your creative process.” And I swear to you, my nervous system didn’t, didn’t know, I just didn’t know how to take that in. I’m like, what if procrastination is a part of my creative process?

Danielle Ireland:
He said, “Yeah, you know what if…” And he just got me… He just started prompting ideas, like well tell me about other creative pursuits that you’ve done or other things that you’ve made. Has procrastination usually been a step before you launch into this next thing? And I, yeah. I mean almost, almost every time. And I think almost the amount that I procrastinate, usually there are some, not that I have an emotional weighted scale, but if I had one, just imagining, so the amount that it mattered to me, to put this thing into the world, there’s likely a positive relationship on how long I waited because it mattered so much.

Danielle Ireland:
And so when I thought of it that way, again, I haven’t quite exactly got my finger on the pulse, but it just got me thinking. And two, I think him asking me that question that way, or even presenting that perspective gave me permission to relax a little bit and look at it from a slightly different point of view. Maybe a less critical point of view because usually criticism shuts me down. And I don’t know why I criticism or at least self criticism. I don’t know why I think that’s going to be motivating because it’s not. But he gave me permission in that moment to consider a different point of view with it and it’s a gentler one. And I really like it and I can see how it could be true for a lot of people as well. Now I don’t know exactly where that line is between procrastination being a part of my process and now let’s get up and go. I don’t know where that stepping stone is exactly, but I want to figure it out.

Danielle Ireland:
Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening to another episode of Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs. I don’t want to slow down your momentum. If you’re in the middle of a binge, you keep going. You’ve got this. Just a couple more episodes left. Keep listening. If you need a break too. I totally get it. I completely understand. Whatever you need, I am here for you. And to that end, let me hear from you. Leave a comment, rate review, subscribe, or shoot me a message at Danielle@danielleireland.com either way, I hope you continue having an awesome day. I hope your day was maybe a little bit better after listening to this, but keep on keeping on, and thanks again for listening.

Check out the episode HERE.

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