Hello and welcome back to the “Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs” podcast!
Creativity isn’t just about talent—it’s about navigating the uncertainty of the messy middle, where inspiration meets resistance, doubt, and discovery. In this special miniseries, I’m diving deep into the creative process with my friend and fellow creative, Emily H. Sutherland. Emily is a ghostwriter, published author, coach, and executive storyteller. And that just barely scratches the surface of her experience and talents.
Emily and I first connected when I sought her guidance on my own exciting new project—writing a children’s book. What I learned from working with her was so powerful that I knew we had to share our thoughts on creativity. Because here’s the truth: each of us is creative. Each of us deserves the joy of bringing bold, beautiful, and deeply personal ideas to life.
Join us as we break down creativity into four phases: inspiration, preparation, perspiration, and creation. Whether you’re an artist, writer, entrepreneur, or someone who’s ever dreamed of creating something, this series is for you. Let’s explore the power of creativity together—because the messy middle isn’t just where the hard work happens. It’s where the magic lives!
Preview a clip here
RESOURCES
Emily Sutherland’s Retreat (May 9th, 2025)
Danielle Ireland’s Treasured Journal
MENTIONS
- Emily H. Sutherland website
- Martha Beck – Beyond Anxiety
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/beyond-anxiety-martha-beck/1145322194 - Elizabeth Gilbert – Big Magic
https://www.amazon.com/Big-Magic-Creative-Living- Beyond/dp/1594634726 - Marie Forleo
https://www.marieforleo.com/ - The Tim Ferriss Show featuring Jerry Seinfeld
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNTmFORn3xQ - Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out Podcast featuring Stephen Merchant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tfTkwMzq_4
DANIELLE IRELAND, LCSW
Thank you for your support and engagement as part of the Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs community. Feel free to reach out with questions, comments, or anything you’d like to share. You can connect with me at any of the links below.
- Don’t forget to grab your copy of The Treasured Journal
- Want to connect in other fin ways? Substack
- Do you prefer getting your podcasts here? Check out the Podcast on YouTube
Full Transcript of the episode below
Danielle Ireland welcomes Emily Sutherland to talk about creativity on Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs.
Danielle Ireland: Hello. Hello. This is Danielle Ireland and I am here with a brand new episode of don’t cut your own banks with a very special guest, Emily Sutherland. If you’re unfamiliar with don’t cut your own bangs, welcome. I’m so glad that you’re here. This is a podcast about creating a more access community and familiarity with the messy middle of trying to figure things out. And while over the course of running the podcast, that topic has ranged from mental health to relationships to jobs. A place I’m excited to dive into deeper is creativity. Which is why I brought in my friend, expert and also fellow creator, Emily Sutherland. She’s a ghostwriter, she’s an author, she’s writing a screenplay, she is an editor, she’s a multi hyphenate creator. And she has specifically been helping me recently with a project that I am excited to talk about. But I’ve invited her here with me today to talk about our relationship with creativity, why we’re all needed in our own way as creators, and how we can bring these brave, bold and beautiful, maybe even small, tender and private ideas to light in whatever capacity that is. So welcome, Emily.
Emily: Thank you. I’SO happy to be here.
Danielle Ireland: I’m so happy to be here with you.
Emily says when she’s creating, everything else becomes more manageable
Anything else you want the listeners to know about you that I didn’t include in the intro, please? By all means, you have the floor. Tell us more about who you are.
Emily: Well, your intro was very kind. I appreciate that. but I do just have. I like the way you said a relationship with creativity because I have a strong and passionate relationship with creativity. And if I’m not creating, I’m not myself. And I feel that probably there’s a lot of us that are doing. I’m putting air quotes, no one can see that. But real jobs that don’t let us fully explore creativity. And I’ve been there. I was there at least 10 years in a non creative job and I thought it was going to die. And even then I had to find something to create. Even at home at night my husband would go to bed and I would work late in the night and create poems and lyrics and just things that came out that I just needed to create something even though it wasn’t my job. Now it’s my job and I couldn’t be more grateful because I get to create and let things live as my life work at the moment. And I hope that continues forever. But this is for anybody out there that maybe even doesn’t realize how creative you are or realize how much creativity can add to life, add to joy and add to the kind of breadth of understanding, even of ourselves and what’s possible.
Danielle Ireland: Well, and I thank you. That’s in essence, this podcast minise series is a call to action to invite you to participate in either a renewed way or to pick it up potentially for the first time. However you imagine creativity to be in your life or if there’s something that you’ve longed to do that you have yet to do, I hope that this is your sign and your call to do it and to act because I think we need more art. It’s rarely making me think about that. There’s a makeup artist named Bobbi Brown and I’m not sure how familiar our listeners, are with makeup, but Bobbi Brown’a pretty well known. She’s a pretty well known brand. I bought her book. I think it was the Art of Makeup when we got in the mid-90s when I was learning how to do my own makeup. Anyway, she flashed forward. She has actually sold her company, which is still her name, and has gone off on her own. And she’s created a company called Jones Road Shout out because it’s amazing. But I remember when she was being interviewed about why she did it, she said, the world doesn’t need more makeup. The world needs better makeup. As I think about, there are so many reasons to not do something. It’s so easy to not do something. It is consuming content, media, I don’t know, Amazon. Any uncomfortable feeling that you don’t want to sit with. You can shop it away, you can sip it away, you can nibble it away, you can avoid it, you can Netflix binge. I’m not judging any of those activities, by the way.
Emily: Yeah, them all, of course.
Danielle Ireland: And they all have a beautiful place, but. Or not. But as an. And when there’s something about creativity and the act of creating, even in little tiny acts, that soothes me in a way. And I’m saying this as a mental health professional, as a therapist, that when I’m actively participating in, in creating something, everything else in my life feels a little bit more manageable. I can go a little bit farther and it’s not. If creating is the motivation to do more, then that’s not the place I’m talking about. But when I’m actively participating with creation and somend capacity, the things that are hard are a little less hard. It’s like the volume is dialed down in the noise in my head and maybe like if I’m in a down space, I’m not going to go down as far or I’m in an up, kind of frantic, overly anxious place. I’m not going to buzz quite as high. It’s like I’m in a more manageable, functional range. And actually Martha Beck is coming out with a book. I’ve been plugging her a lot lately.
Emily: Yes, I like her a lot. You got me onto her.
Danielle Ireland: Yes. Yes. Thank you for that. My absolute pleasure. And she’s not a sponsor. She’s just someone. I just happen to adore the work that she does. But she’s coming out with a book that I think is available for pres. Sale. It’s essentially speaking. I can’t remember what it’s called actually, but what it’s speaking to is that the opposite of anxiety is not calm, it is creation.
Emily: Yes.
Danielle Ireland: And what we’re going to also dive into, Emily and I, through the process of talking about creativity. We’re specifically going to look at inspiration, preparation, perspiration and creation. So we tried to think about, okay, we could just talk about creativity all day, every day and it could get kind of circular or circuitous and not lead anywhere, which is great for coffee talk conversations. But if we’re going to share time with each other in front of a microphone and then share that with you, we wanted it to have a little bit more of a direction. And so if you have abandoned your creativity for a while or if it feels like it’s in that dusty box, maybe in your basement, that you’re afraid if I pull it out, will you still know how to do it? Or again, if you have always had a dream about picking up a paintbrush and you just maybe haven’t even made it into a paint store. All creators are welcome, which essentially means all people, because we’re all creators. But we re going to start with inspiration today and then as we continue on, we’ll lead into preparation, perspiration, and ultimately creation. And within each, we’re going to look at what do we want to be aware of, what do we want to acknowledge? When is it time to take action or what action steps do we take? And then how do we allow it to be so how do those for aware acknowledge action and allowing? How does that fit into when, inspiration strikes?
We’re going to use a shared project that Emily has helped me with
And trust me, we’re not going to get all esoteric, the whole entire time because we actually have a shared project that Emily has helped me with that I’m really excited to talk to you about. We’re going to be using a very real and tangible project that Emily has been assisting me with for the last month or so, a children’s book that I’m in the process of writing and it’s nearly complete called Wrestling a Walrus.
Emily: It’s so cute you guys.
Danielle Ireland: Thank you, that’s so sweet. Thank you so much. yes. So all of the multi hyphenate beautiful things that Emily does that we shared in the intro, we’re going to be drawing upon her expertise because I think it’s so different when we are reflecting on an experience. In hindsight, like looking back and reflecting, it’s so easy to clean up, dust up and make it look really, I don’t know. In four simple steps, this is how I did this thing. Trying to as best I can in real time to share things as I’m experiencing them in the process. That will be our through line as our model that we’re going to go back to this process of how did this idea come about, how did I get prepared, what actual work steps came in place to get it over the hill and into publication and then the actual creation itself. So that’s going to be the real time tangible through line throughout this miniries.
We’re going to talk about creativity in a more general way too
And we’re also going to talk about creativity in a more general way too that hopefully through specificity and universality, you can see yourself in it. So where do you want to begin?
Emily: Goodness. When you were first presenting the idea to me that you had had the story started off just sort of nebulous. You didn’t know what it was going to be yet. And I think we need to honor those ideas when we have sort of a thought or a theme or even a line, a sentence or a title or something that we know is stirring something in us, but we don’t know what it is yet that’s inspiration. You’ve been inspired with this little seed of an idea and you could just decide what you’re going to do with it. And you decided, I’m going to play with it. I am going to let this awareness of this idea, I’m going to let it live. I’m going to see what happens with it. And you didn’t know how it was going to turn out. You didn’t know if it was going to be a thing that you would keep or put out there for anyone else. Some of our inspiration and ideas are just for us just to enjoy. But sometimes they grow into something that a lot of people can benefit from and we don’t know at that moment when we’re aware of the idea, which it is sometimes. Right.
Danielle Ireland: At least I don’t yeah, you’re right. It’s funny how I probably would have forgotten this piece if I had waited to, like, a year ago, if I were reminiscing and talking about this versus talking about it when it’s fresh. But I came up with the name Wrestling a Walrus. There was just something about the language of it that really amused me. You talked about play. Like, I played with the idea just to see what it would become. And I think it was such a playful sentence. I didn’t even know it was a title that I thought, well, gosh, what could I do with it? And so I ended up turning it into a week’s worth of social media content. So if anyone listening follows me on Instagram M, you could probably scroll back through and find a reel and a couple of posts that are titled Wrestling a Walrus. And I kind of thought that was it. I was like, oh, that’s amusing. That was clever. And I just sort of left it. And then flash forward maybe a month or so. I just had this burning knowing that I wanted. That sounds very, Urinary tract infection. I had had a strong sense that I wanted to apply myself to a creative pursuit that I was excited by. And I specifically wanted something that excited me enough to make me a little nervous. I didn’t want to scare myself like watching a horror movie, but I wanted to put something on the line that’s great. I wanted to put myself out there in a different way. I mean, the podcast was that at one point in time, and I have a different relationship with it now because it’s not brand new, but I was ready to call on something new. And I thought that that would be a book.
Emily: And.
Danielle Ireland: Well, I mean, it ultimately was, but book with, like, a capital B. Like, I was going to write an important mental health book that was serious for serious adults. And essentially I was like, okay, I’m going to take whatne Brown does, and I’m going to take all these other experts, and I’m going to do it. And I’m making this funny voice because I’m making fun of myself. Because the truth was that I was kind. I wasn’t fully aware, and I wasn’t fully acknowledging the trick I was playing on myself because I wanted to write a book that spoke to how to hold big feelings lightly. And I made a commitment to myself that I would not take the process of writing this book or myself in that process too serious. Because when I take myself very seriously and I get very serious, the words that come out on the page are pretty bossy and finger waggy and that feels very antithetical to what I was trying to make.
Emily: And I can relate to that.
Danielle Ireland: So good. Oh good. I’m glad it’s not just time. So I didn’t realize until I was about two weeks in to writing this book that I was telling myself wasn’t serious but was actually very serious that I happened to look down and there was on a post it note on a scrap piece of paper wrestling a walrus. And it was just laying there on a piece of paper. And there was something about the juxtaposition of seeing what I was doing and then seeing that title. I’ll be honest, I literally just threw my notebook up in the air. Not at anyone, just sort of like flailed it up in the air and I just went G fuck. Like I just,
Emily: You.
Danielle Ireland: And once I realized what I was doing, I shut it down for two weeks and I didn’t pick it up again for two weeks. I kind of turtled during that turtling process. Basically what would happen, my mind would keep drifting back to wrestling a walrus. And it was on a walk that the story started to kind of talk to me.
Emily says thinking of creation as being in communion with the idea
But I’ll pause my story there because I want to hear Emily, because I know that you’ve been through so many cycles and iterations of that germination of something and I want to hear more about that from you too.
Emily: Well, your process is very familiar, you know, because you think, okay, the next idea I have is going to be huge. You know, you just want it to be this. It’s going to be the maker breaker. And I’ve had a lot of those ideas that never saw the light of day. You know, I have woken up in the middle of the night with the most brilliant lyric idea that the world has ever known.
Danielle Ireland: Taylor swiftt get ready, get ready girl.
Emily: Because this is going to break out and it’s going to change lives. It’s still sitting in a file half done. There’s 100 of them. The next morning I looked at it was like, is that brilliant? I don’t know. Was it justion digestion?
Danielle Ireland: I don’t know.
Emily: But it was important to write it down because who knows, I could go back tomorrow and start something out of what I did back then. You know what I mean?
Danielle Ireland: Yes.
Emily: I could open up a file and all of a sudden a different idea of how to express it will hit. So I don’t ever think it’s a mistake to stick that sticky note on your desk and Keep it in front of you, Give it a rest for two weeks. I mean, all of those things are part of the creation process, but we don’t talk about that. We capture a, phrase and we’re like, okay, okay, there’s something to this. And when it doesn’t just pop right away, how many times do we just walk away and be like, I thought that would maybe be something, but it wasn’t. But we forgot to come back to it. We forgot to acknowledge, it, After. It didn’t just flow out of us in this perfectly succinct way, you kept bringing it back, put it away, but you got it back out. You kept your mind open to what it might want to be. Because I know that we say we’re creators, but the things that want to be created or need to be created, they have a way of telling us what they want to be.
Danielle Ireland: I am so glad that you have said that this way, because, again, anyone who’s been listening to the podcast for a while knows my deep love for Elizabeth Gilbert’s book Big Magic, the Art of Creative Living Beyond Fear. And in that, she introduces this concept of. And she plays around with the language and the etymology and the history of these different concepts too, in a way that is so beautiful. Can’t recommend it enough for anyone wanting to create something.
Emily: I agree.
Danielle Ireland: It’s great. Unless that reading that book is the new way for you to avoid making the thing. So maybe make something while reading it.
Emily: Absolutely. Good point.
Danielle Ireland: I have very cleverly, many, many, many times taking education or consuming very important information from making something. But anyway, she talks about how this idea that maybe we give so much weight culturally, particularly in the art community, with a creative genius. But she was like, what if it’s dead? It’s not that someone or someone is not a creative genius, but that the genius is the idea. So the idea there ideas floating out in the ether essentially, that are like little beings just longing for someone to see them and want to create with them. And then from that. And I may not be doing her telling of it justice, but it’s very paraphrased, but thinking of whatever you’re making as being in communion with the idea. It’s funny how I don’t know if I, consciously realized it until I started talking about it just now, but there have been times where I would talk about taking the book on a walk. And I’ve even used this when I met with an illustrator for the book, and I’m like, this book. I know the book wants to be made. And, there’s something I think that’s really special and helpful for me individually, that the idea wants to exist. And it feels so, amazing that I’m the one that it gets to participate with in this capacity. And Emily’s hands have been on participating with this idea and the illustrator, their hands are going to be on adding their own beautiful flavor. And then when it’s formatted and laid out, and then when it’s no longer in my hands anymore and it’s just out in someone else’s hands, hopefully a child’s hands wanting to read it, the idea takes on its own life that’s completely separate from me.
Steven Spielberg has talked about how ideas always start as whispers
But there was something about. Because we’re talking about opening and broadening awareness, like a new definition of what inspiration is. I think Steven Spielberg has talked about how ideas always start as whispers. It’s like this little whisper of something in the ether that you kind of listen to and follow and then acknowledging its presence. But there was an action component that when you were talking about writing a lyric, putting it down, looking at it the next day, was it genius or was it indigestion? And you were kind of replaying back to me some of the action steps that I took that I didn’t really see that way at the time. But it’s almost like if you could think of creation as double Dutch. So there’s like, two little kids that you can’t see, and they. They’ve got this rhythm for their ropes, and they’re swinging their ropes, swinging their ropes, swinging their ropes. And it’s like you can get in there and play with them, but you also have to take the step to jump in. And I think that sitting down with either your pen and paper or jotting down the bad poem or going to the arts and crafts store and getting the most basic watercolor paint there is. Inspiration is great, and it’s beautiful, particularly when there’s an idea that excites you to play. And there’s also hopping in letting creation know you’re ready to play with it.
Emily: Yes.
Danielle Ireland: And I think that’s sometimes maybe the. I’m not even talking about mastery. This isn’t even. I’m not even thinking about, like, the 10,000 practice hours you hear about with people who, like, become a master of a craft. I’m not even talking about that. More just, like, there has to be some level, however small, of showing up in a way that creat. That inspiration can’t even move through.
Emily: Right. and this is especially true because I do it for a living. There are days when I don’t know what or if the idea is there, and I have to sit down and show up to it before it comes. There are times when you might sit before a canvas that’s a metaphor for anything. A blank piece of paper, a garden of flowers. And you have to sit with that and show up to it and just start playing, start allowing it to talk to you and to inspire whatever it’s going to inspire. And sometimes inspiration can feel really good. But, it can also feel a little intimidating because you’re like, maybe I haven’t done this before. I too, had an idea for a children’s book years ago, and it sat on my desk for 10 years, maybe longer, before I took it out and actually did the action of finding, a path for it, getting it into people’s hands. And it ended up being a friend’s baby was going to be born. And that kind of gave me a deadline and it made me take action because I wanted it to live for my friend. I didn’t even. Maybe if it was up to me, I wouldn’t have done it by myself. I got it into book form and gave it to her at the shower. Of course, she was excited about it. And, a mutual friend of ours had illustrated, so that was special. But all of a sudden, she starts passing it around the circle. And I feel my face getting hotter and hotter because I was like, oh, it is out there. It is out of my hands now. It is no longer safe in my little dark file that where it stayed for 10 years. And if it wasn’t good enough, no one would ever know. And I got afraid. And I think that’s where, when we’re talking about inspiration, you want that to spur creation, but there’s a moment at which you have to let it go and be what it’s going to be. And that feels really scary, especially the first time you do it. It’s a little bit of adrenaline hit.
Danielle Ireland: That feels like the allowing piece. So it’s like you’re aware of the inspiration. You acknowledge it exists, then you act on making it, and then at some point, you allow it to exist. I think this process is true whether you’re in the beginning stages of creating an idea. But I think there’s all these little min iterations of, I’m aware and I acknowledge and I take a step and then I allow it. And then it doesn’t mean it’s not like I was a beginning, middle and end. It’s almost like you have 100 beginning, middle and ends within one whole project. I’m thinking about. I got to a point where I had worked on the idea and I could just feel, and this might be a byproduct of having been connected to other creative processes for a number of years, whether it was in, like, the performing arts or having also written and published my guided journal Treasured. I got to a place where I knew that I’d gotten the words as it stood in my draft as far as I could carry it by myself. And I wish I could articulate that knowing better, because I can’t say, at least not in this moment. Maybe in future episodes I’ll have an idea and I’m sure Emily will know because you’re invited into other people’s words and creative work so often. But I. I just had that feeling sitting with the draft. I’REVIEWED it and reviewed it and played with it and played with it and walked with it and read it to my husband and reviewed it and changed it. And I was like, I think I’ve gotten this as far up the hill as I can go by myself. It’s time to call in somebody else. And you were that somebody Again, that’s another awareness. Acknowledge. I got it as far as it can go. And then the action step was, okay, I’m going to potentially put it in someone else’s hands and, allow her to have an opinion about it. And what’s really. I should note this because we haven’t really talked about how Emily and I know each other that much. I think one thing that can be helpful to remember is that in the process of creating, as your needs arise, the solutions will present themselves too. What is that? It’s like a proverb that when the teacher is ready, the student appears, or something like that. I feel like that’s something. I don’t think I made that up.
Emily: That seems really wise. If you made it up, you were really inspired. And I would say I’m glad you put it out there and allowed it.
Danielle Ireland: Well, thank you. And if anyone listening was like, o, I know what she’s talking about, it’s really this, please email me, tell me, correct me, I don’t remember the source.
When you know good people in common, it’s always helpful
But as soon as I recognized and could allow and acknowledge, I am ready to invite somebody else in to help me with this. I remembered Emily’s name. Now, before that moment, I think you and I had maybe been in, the same room with each other twice, possibly. I think you’re right. And we had mutual good friends in Common, which is always helpful, right. When you. When you know good people in common, it’s like you kind of already have a sense of who that person could probably be before really knowing them. Like, you already had, like, an opt in for trust because we had some people in common. And then I knew through the grapevine and acquaintances and social networking and all that that you were a published author, that you would publish a children’s book. And so it. It was almost in the same breath. I think I’ve gotten this as far as I could go. I think I want to invite someone in to help me take it to the next step. Emily. It was just like, bing, bing, boom.
Emily: And I’m so glad.
Danielle Ireland: Me too.
Emily: It’s such a privilege.
Danielle Ireland: God, me too. For so many reasons. This being one that we’re here doing this now, which is so fun. And it doesn’t always work this way. But in this particular case with writing this book, I emailed you and you replied, I think the same day. And we were sitting across one another at, a, beautiful restaurant here locally in Indianapolis called Cafe Patachu. I talked about it a lot on this podcast. I go there a lot.
Danielle Ireland: So we virtually were able to get together within 24 to 4, eight hours from that call. I mean, it was just that easy. It just happened to work for you? It worked for me. And it just felt like such an easy thing to say yes to. I have this idea. Yes, I want to meet. Here we are.
Emily Sutherland found a rhythm in the words that I didn’t even know existed
I’ll, jump ahead a little bit to what Emily was able to find in the words that I didn’t even know existed. Which is where. When you allow your idea to not be so precious and insular and kept only to yourself, when you do the vulnerable thing and you share it with someone, sometimes you make it feedback you don’t want or unsolicited advice. But the thing that you’re also opening yourself up to is for someone else’s magic to just add to what you’re trying to create.
Emily: That’s vulnerable, though.
Danielle Ireland: Admit it’s so vulnerable. But maybe what helped is that I didn’t grow up like, I didn’t grow up as a sculptor or a painter. I grew up in the theater, which is just inherently collaborative. I don’t know if that had anything to do with it. But regardless, what Emily was able to find was the rhythm in the words, the rhythm that I didn’t even know existed, that it was inconsistently there, sort of buried in there. But there was a pattern. It was like 7, 6, 7 6, 7, SY in terms of the syllables. And once that pattern was made clear and she helped edit some words to, she helped add her flair to the draft that I gave her. And then there was something like brand new. It was like a new puzzle. And then I was on a brand new cycle of theing to becoming aware and acknowledging and taking action. That was maybe the most heady because it was dipping a little bit out of inspiration and definitely more into perspiration to kind of keep that count going. But I think that there was even this own little magic of the book. Became something clearer, more specific, better, more dialed in, easier to read the rhythm. It flowed. Like when you read it aloud, it added something to it. It added a really special piece to it. So, yeah, you definitely sprinkled some Emily Sutherland magic the book.
Emily: Well, some of that comes with having played with word for so many years that my brain wants to find the rhythm or the verse or the find, how will this line flow through somebody’s mind so they’re not getting hung up on the words and they can really understand the story that you’re trying to tell? So getting any clunky syllables out of the way, that’s probably, My preparation of studying words for so long, that kind of helped bring something to it. Just the experience of having created so many things for so long, but at the same time, it wouldn’t have become that had not you had that beautiful seed of an idea that you were willing to admit was something before it was something. And I think even before we know what something’s going to be, there’s that vulnerable step of saying, I remember you saying, I think I have a children’s book, but I didn’t know for sure. Would you mind looking at it? And anytime someone like that comes with, an idea that feels like something, I understand that that is vulnerable for you. So I’m going to walk into that saying, okay, I want to honor the time that you’ve put into this the idea. And if I don’t get it, I’m not going to play with the words for you because I don’t want to mess it up. But as soon as I started reading your idea, I was like, I get it. I want to help you shape this into something that just cements in people’s hearts and they think of this the next time they’re in a scenario that the metaphor, which you’ll understand later, when the metaphor relates to so many situations in life that the adult reading the child the book will probably be like.
Emily: Oh, well, I’m so glad you said it that way because I had forgotten even there. Like, I think it’s a children’s book, but I don’t know. I think because it exists now in its own capacity, like it’s not done, but it exists as a children’s book that, I’m so glad that you’re bringing in my own uncertainty. I think it’s what it is, but I didn’t even know for sure. And I think sometimes the perfection ###ness the doer, the over functioner in me wouldn’t always have allowed me to not know before handing it over to someone.
Emily: Yeah, I’m so glad you did.
Danielle Ireland: And it definitely. I think it definitely validates the vulnerability because, I mean, I believed you when you said it, but I think I’m just like, hearing it in a different way. And I think to just acknowledge my own ego too, is that whatever your idea is, like, if I didn’t make it clear, I almost didn’t let this idea exist because I was trying to write what in my mind was a big, important, serious mental health book for big, important, serious adults. And so when this idea kept kind of like poking at me, it almost reminds me ofan. I’m not proud of it, but it’s such a true moment. Moments where I think I’m really focused on a task and my daughter wants my attention. Or like my son is calling for me. He’s not calling for me. He’s one and a half. Or not even one and a half. He’s one. He’ll call out, and I am the being that he’s calling out near. But anyway, that’s sometimes what this idea felt like in the beginning. Because in my process of doing big, important adult things, this little. I’m calling it little through the lens of what my ego would see at the time. It’s not little little, but this little idea kept wanting to play with me. And I was like, I don’t have time to play with you. I’m doing very busy and important work things. I mean, it’s just. The irony is just finding new layers for me that this little children’s book wanted to play with me. And I was doing too many busy and important big adult things to really give it the space or time. And through the act of following that invitation to play, I feel so happy. Every time I acknowledge the book, it bring. It lights something up in me. And I don’t know if this is how inspiration always is or this is just this idea I’m not sure if it’s special to the idea or if it’s true to all creation. I haven’t written enough books to have that confidence to know yet. But it’s funny to me that even having written my first draft or two and my pitch to you, I think I have a children’s book, but I don’t know. Would you look at it like, I have a lot of compassion for Danielle. Two months ago, or. How long was that? Two months ago?
Emily: Yeah. The Be of Ra.
Danielle Ireland: Wow. Yeah. She, Oh, she was. I think I still had like, one hand on the children’s book and one hand on the adult book. And, I was trying to reconcile to what I thought it should be versus what it ended up being.
Danielle Ireland: It’s so interesting to hear that history. We’ve talked a little bit about that. Elizabeth Gilbert says ideas are floating in the ethos and they want to live But what you don’t know is that when I went to Google the title that I was going to give my children’s book, It’s Hard to Hug a Porcupine, which Everybody Should Grab a Copy. It’s so cute.
Danielle Ireland: It was a serious adult book about psychology.
Emily: I didn’t know that.
Danielle Ireland: And to the point of, Elizabeth Gilbert saying, these ideas are floating in the ethos and they want to live. I think it wanted to be a children’s book and somebody wrote the big serious one. But I went ahead and it made my idea live. Even though there was a book out there of the same title, because it wasn’t the same genre at all. It was a book about people with big feelings in a different way. And I think that the obedience to the idea. It’s easy to get shut down and say, oh, my gosh, that title’s already out there. Or that idea has probably existed before, so you’re just going to shoot yourself down. And part of allowing is to even just be able to say, I have this idea. And maybe someone’s had it before, and maybe it is a children’s book, maybe it’s an adult book, but maybe it’s movie, who knows? But to just let it tell you what it wants to be. And I do believe that there is an obedience about it that, like the children calling out, if they’re calling to you, if these ideas are calling to you and you brush them aside or think, oh, I don’t feel prepared. I don’t know what it’s going to be. To your point earlier, there’s so many reasons not to do it. There’s so many distractions. We don’t feel like we’re going to do A good job with it sometimes if we don’t know what it’s going to be, so we just kind of set it aside. It wants to live so badly, and if it’s chosen you, that there is a privilege in that. And then when you invited me into it, kind of come along and play with it with you and offer feedback and ideas. There’s something about that part of it that validates it because you don’t just walk around with it. You’ve told somebody. And even still, like you mentioned earlier, that I’m working on a screenplay that was very vulnerable for me to say out loud to somebody that I was working on one, because I know all the reasons not to do it. I know it was an impossible thing to get a movie made. I understand all of that. But the idea wouldn’t go away and you just have to show up for it, even if it’s just for yourself to get the experience of knowing how to do this and knowing that you can do this. It doesn’t have to have a certain outcome to be worth doing.
Emily Sutherland has two really enticing workshops coming up
Danielle Ireland: I have something really exciting to share with you. Emily Sutherland. She has two really enticing workshops coming up. Also a secret third one that more details to come. But these two exciting workshops I want to give you a little bit of context for so that you can make sure to register, sign up, and benefit from all of Emily’s wisdom. First is the storytelling retreat, February 7th and 8th. This is for anybody who wants to write a memoir, an autobiography, or has a memory from childhood that you just know if the right person heard it, if it was told in the right way, it could change somebody’s life and it could maybe even grow your business. Boom. That could be an incredible opportunity for you. There is also, if you’re thinking, oh, gosh, I would love to. That sounds so amazing. I just don’t know if I can make those two days work on my schedule. Don’t worry. Take a breath because we also have something else for you. The Storytelling for business retreat, April 4. This is for solopreneurs, marketing teams, or maybe even presenters. How do you connect with people through your story? How do you connect more purpose and infuse it into everything you say and do that really just makes people want to work with you. This could be the workshop for you. Click the link in the bio, check out the show notes, click all the links. That’s where all the information to sign up, register, participate, learn, and start writing begins. Something that I had heard a lot withard to the creative process is that Process over perfection, that it is the act of creating that is the magic, not how the creation is received. Like, percent and I’ve heard from so many different sources, spiritual outlets and different creators, like, it is the act of creating. It is the process. And s. In my head, I was like, yeah, ye. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. But it’s got to be really big and important. Yeah, ye. Yeah, sure, sure. But it’s going to be, a. Whatever it’s going to be. And the only other creative process that has given me as much joy as whatever it became, like this podcast itself, there was so little expectation for it becoming anything. But the process of playing with the format and just showing up was so, so enjoyable for me.
Emily: Yes.
Danielle Ireland: And it wasn’t until people started to listen and I realized, oh, shit, people are listening. That had a different. I have a different relationship with it, and my relationship has evolved over time, but I can definitely say for the first 20 episodes, it was the gift of collaborating and participating in it that was so rewarding. I wasn’t doing it to get a thing. And with this book, I feel like I’ve already gained so much. And I don’t know if I’m halfway through. I don’I. Don’t know how far it’s going to go or how much more it’s going to become, but, like, I’m in the creative process, but it’s by no means done. And it brings me. It uplifts me when I read it. It uplifts me when I talk about it. It uplifts me when I think about it. And so there’s. I think this is one of the first times that I can clearly say and actually believe that the process of playing with it has been the most rewarding thing. And so truly, it’s like, my God, if it becomes anything, if it means anything to anyone, what a great bonus. But I have been so attached to outcomes and how things have been received or perceived, probably because on so many levels, I’ve been healing my own need to be liked and accepted.
Emily: Sure.
Danielle Ireland: That I can see and feel and smell and taste the difference in this in a way that I haven’t before.
Emily: Everybody deserves this, because everybody is creative. And I think that really brings us to why we’re having this conversation and why we wanted to try to share some of this experience with you, because everybody deserves this. Yes, everybody deserves this. And we’re talking about writing because that happens to be the project that I’m doing, and that happens to be an area of Emily’s expertise. But I’m hoping through the specificity of this, that there is some universality in any form of creation and living a more creative life. I think it’s so needed and to kind of bring it back to Bobby Brown. There’s a couple of things that you’ve said, Emily, that I feel relate to this too, that to say, does the world need one more blank? Does the world need one more sculpture? Does the world need one more screen prelate? Does the world need one more children’s book? It’s like, well, I think it depends on the lens through with your, like, looking at the question, I can stand in Barnes and Noble and see the entire children’s section and think, oh, my God, does this shelf need one more book? But this is something I want to make.
Danielle Ireland: Yeah.
Danielle Ireland: And I think about this. This is, a reference to Marie Forleo. She talks about how for people who want to make things, does the world need one more Italian restaurant? But she was like, have you ever sat an Italian restaurant where you’re having an incredible meal and thought, oh, God, here’s another one. No, you’re just enjoying it. You’re enjoying the food, you’re enjoying the meal. And your Nona’s recipe is her recipe that you can’t get anywhere else. It’s hard to hug a porcupine. It had to be told through you.
Emily: Right. I don’t think we often realize that they could hand out the same idea to 100 people and it would look different when they’re all done. No one can tell the story like you can. And I speak to you, the listener as well. No one has your story. No one has your lens, your angle, your life experience. And it can be creating a, cookie recipe, making Christmas ornaments. It doesn’t even have to be a visual thing. It can be mixing sound or creating a podcast or creative solutions to problems, invention. There’s so many ways that creativity hits us in so many ways that, ah, different personalities might create. But it’s not just for the world, it’s for you. And that’s enough.
Danielle Ireland: Yes. Boom. Making something for you is enough. I don’t think I fully completeed the point that I love Bobby Brown’s confidence that the world doesn’t need more makeup, it needs better makeup. And I know that that sounds very result driven, but there was something about that confidence that she has created a cosmetic empire and sold it. It’s like, does she need to keep doing it? No. But she’s doing it because she wants to try to improve it. And I think reference Elizabeth Gilbert again, one of the ways that Helps me get out of my own way or out of my own head if my perfectionistic voice is speaking a little too loudly. I have no illusion about being the best and I know I’m not going to be the worst. And there’s a lot of real estate between the best and the worst. And somewhere in there there’s room for me. And I remind myself though that particular lesson, for whatever reason, I didn’t need to call it in for this book. I can think of. I certainly did call it in. When it came to the podcast. I had a lot of stuff in my head about technology, how I function with technology, my ability to operate technology in any kind of master capacity. But there’s a lot of real estate between number one on the call sheet and the very end of the line. And somewhere in there there’s room for me.
Emily: And you may start out at 1 and end up at a 10. We have to be willing to do something badly to get great at it. You can’t edit a blank page, but you can edit a bad page Y and you can go back later with clarity that you didn’t have when you did that first draft. But the magic is just keep going, keep listening. Really, I think ideas are about listening and obeying and allowing. It’s so rewarding when you can do it because you feel that it’s almost like a partnership, you know, with whoever your higher power is, you know, to say you are assisted in this process in ways that it’s hard to explain until you’ve done it.
Thates yes to all of that. The demands of the world, the heaviness of certain pockets of
Danielle Ireland: Well, with that said, I hope that everything we’ve talked about, if there was one little nugget or one little takeaway, my wish for you is that this feels like a call or a gentle invitation to play with something that wants to play with you. And yeah, you are worth the time, you are worth the energy, you’re worth this space to play with that idea. And I’m saying that as much for myself as for everyone listening because I mean, this little idea wanted to play with me. And sometimes there will never. The demands of the world, the heaviness of certain pockets of the world, the challenges that we face, the day to day tasks, they will be there. That is the beauty of those hardships is they are so consistent and unrelenting and what they require, they’re knock on the door, they will continue to knock at the door. And I think that that makes it not just vulnerable, but all the more brave to say with all of that. Not even in spite of, but with all of Thates yes to all of that.
Some of the things I’ve been listening to helped shape my writing process
And I am going to play with this idea a couple of resources like if you’re listening to this, you’re thinking, well, where else can I hear? I’ll say some things that I had been listening to in the weeks and months leading up to this idea that potentially helped pave the way for me. There was an interview with Jerry Seinfeld and Tim Ferriss on, Tim Ferriss podcast where Jerry talked about in very specific detail what his writing process is. There’s also another great Mike Barbiglia. he’s another stand up comedian. What I love about stand up comedians because their material changes all day, every day. They are not precious about their process because they’re constantly in process. And then once they release a special, they have to start over again. So they’re just really dialed in on their craft and they get feedback every time with a new audience. So for whatever reason I find that their perspective on how they do what they do I find so helpful. But, Microbigliias podcast is called Working it out and he has an interview with. Oh man, what is his name? The guy who was one of the original creators of the British Office. Not Ricky Gervais, the other guy. I think sometimes inspiration is getting ready to be ready. So if you hear this, you’re like, okay, I’m ready. What do I do? It’s okay. Maybe if you don’t even know. But yeah, sometimes I draw upon the bravery and the experience of other people until I’m ready to take my step.
Emily: Pain and creativity are beautiful match because creativity releases pain
Danielle Ireland: Do you have any final thoughts, Emily, before we wrap this on them?
Emily: well, I just want anyone listening to show up to, whatever inspires you. And you mentioned the difficulty in the world and life is, I think of, Princess Bride. Life is pain, highness. But pain and creativity are beautiful match because creativity is a release for pain. Sometimes it is a way to make our experiences and our feelings into something tangible or something beautiful or helpful. So if you’re in a difficult place and you don’t feel creative, show up to whatever space you can and listen because there is an idea that wants you. And if you’re listening for it and open, it will be a beautiful experience that will certainly be helpful in healing in some way.
Danielle Ireland: M that’s so good.
This week we focused on inspiration in our creativity miniseries
Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of don’t cut your own bangs in our creativity miniseries. Today we focused on inspiration. Up next, we’re going to focus on preparation and then perspiration and then creation and, My companion for all of these episodes as well as my own personal creativity journey is our resident expert and my new friend, Emily Sutherland. So if you want to learn more about Emily and either potentially collaborate with her on a project, maybe you’re looking for a ghostw writer because you have an idea that you are just ready to put out to the world, but you need someone who is a wormith. Well, Emily could be that person for you. So make sure to check out the show notes. All the ways to connect with Emily will be there. As far as resources that I have that could be helpful in assisting you as well, I might recommend the Treasured Journal. It’s a seven part guided journal series that also has a companion. Meditation and creation is a part of every facet of our lives. As much as we love to compartmentalize, the way we do one thing is the way we do all things. And so if you’re listening to this and you’re thinking, gosh, there’s some aspects of my life I want to get a better grasp on, or some things I want to tend to and heal to really facilitate the creative process, the Treasure Journal could be a great companion for you.
Please remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast
Thank you for this time and your Presence and your ATT_ention and speaking of attention and intention, please remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. When you participate with the podcast, it helps in the algorithms and all the interwebs and actually helps the podcast be easier for more fellow creatives to find me. Also remember to leave a review. I love learning and I want to grow and I want to make this content as best as it can be and your feedback is my way to do that. Thanks so much for listening and I hope you continue to have a wonderful day. It.
