A Conversation with Erin Fischer – Part 2

Education, Encouragement, Leading Ladies, Podcast

Don’t cut your own bangs episode 31.

In this conversation Erin and I continue exploring the themes of perfection, permission, and procrastination and how they all relate to confidence.

Enjoy!


Danielle Ireland:
Hello! Hello! You are listening to season three of Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs. And I’m Daniel Ireland, your host and also your guest. I am being interviewed by the amazingly talented, generous and powerful and trainer extraordinaire Erin Fischer, who flipped the script on me. So you’re about to jump into the second half of our conversation where I also get to ask her some questions and you’re going to get to know her a little better as well. But we really gosh, we touched so many great emotional notes in this conversation and I can’t wait for you to hear the rest. So without further ado, here is me and Erin Fischer.

Erin Fischer:
But when you said it, it ain’t Brian did this for me through you, which was, it went back to the permission piece.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
It gave me the permission to say, “Erin, maybe you’re just thinking about it.”

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Maybe you’re giving yourself space to step back and process all of the things that you want to do. Not procrastinating what you’re doing is being thoughtfully, conscious of the pros and cons to making a decision about writing a book or starting another event, doing this podcast, for you the journal piece or finding new clients, whatever it else. Sometimes we go, “This sounds like a great idea.” And then we turn it off so quickly because it feels overwhelming. But what if the procrastination is the dreaming part of all of it? And just working out all of the details like, “Can I do this financially? Will I make money as a result of this? Will I-

Danielle Ireland:
Is money driving the decision?

Erin Fischer:
Am I going to gain membership or followers as a result of pouring into all of the work that I’ll have to do to be successful in this?” And there are some people, the philosophy of either being a blinker or a thinker, somebody makes a really quick decision because they already have enough experience versus a thinker who strategizes and sometimes over-strategizes. What if it’s that middle piece right there that says, “Just let your brain have some time to marinate in all of this goodness.”

Danielle Ireland:
Well, every stage in and I remember I know I talked about this before on a different episode, but I think every stage of the learning process and working with Jen Eads to create the podcast that we would have like a two hour session where she was, basically sit down and walk me through the mechanics of all these different elements. And so I didn’t tell her until probably like a couple months later. But every time I would leave her, I would need to either sit in silence for, or I would just take a nap. My brain would be so full and I’d be, not over whelmed in a spastic way but it was so much stimulation and I was just like, “Huh.” And I would kind of shut down for that chunk of time. And then I wouldn’t touch the work, the “assignment” she gave me, won’t touch it for a week. Wouldn’t touch it for a week. Now, I’m still like, obviously, we’re sitting here as a result, the podcast is done.

Danielle Ireland:
But I think it was like there was so much information coming in, and I had to stop and I had to sit and I had to let it marinate for however long. And then eventually I would start to pluck away at it and get it done. But then she would throw another challenge at me and it would do the same thing. And I would just sort of like mentally shut down for however long and then I’ll kind of pick myself back up and go at it again.

Erin Fischer:
So when you think about the permission piece, the perfectionism piece, the procrastination piece, what are some other advice that you have particularly about this procrastination piece? I love what you said is, I don’t know exactly where the line is between the creative process of procrastination. So let me start there first. What are the habits of people that really do procrastinate versus the habits of people who are in that space of creativity marination thinking… it’s that a word. That’s not a word.

Danielle Ireland:
What?

Erin Fischer:
Marination.

Danielle Ireland:
No. Yeah, it’s not but I liked it. You can make it up. Renee O’Brien makes up words all the time. And I love her.

Erin Fischer:
She does?

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
All right. Renee.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah. Marination. The marination process. Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
We should trademark that before anybody else gets to.

Danielle Ireland:
Marination TM. The umbrella of that is [inaudible 00:04:26].

Erin Fischer:
That’s true.

Danielle Ireland:
So I know that the procrastination or what I’m calling procrastination, when I’m still engaged in the creative process, I’m more thoughtful, considerate and curious. So I think I’m more receptive to possibility and change. I’m less rigid in my thinking. I think I’m less locked in on trying to find ways to distract myself. And I also think too, and this could be just how I’m hardwired but there’s also a difference in feeling. One is, I need stillness. And I need to sit and that stillness gives me peace. That stillness or that quiet or that alone time, it feels settled in me and I’m kind of pointing at my solar plexus right now for those who can’t see me. When I’m procrastinating in a way that is not for my benefit, and likely not helping my creative process. I’m carrying around a constant tension, when I’m doing those things that I’m doing. When I’m busying myself or distract… and it’s more distracting. I feel distracted, less connected. Even if I’m trying to be still it’s not quiet in my head.

Danielle Ireland:
And usually, I think my default behavior is when I’m distracting in a way that doesn’t serve me, because I don’t want to be alone with my thoughts. There’s always some noise happening. I’m either constantly listening to a podcast, constantly listening to a book, the TV is on. And usually like, so parks and recreation, South Park friends, I can tell. When I’m anxiously cleaning, the TV will just be on and I’m not even watching it and I’m doing other things in the house because I just don’t want silence. I don’t want silence in my mind. But that feeling or that sensation in my body, like my body is tense and not relaxed. But I don’t always know it until, it’s kind of like when someone asked you to take a deep breath and you feel your shoulders drop three inches and you didn’t even realize they were raised. You didn’t even realize your body was tight like that. So that’s what I feel like the differences are for me.

Erin Fischer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. For me that piece on giving myself space to dream, because I know I want to do something versus, when you remember your talks about the fear wall?

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
When I know that there’s a real danger and I’m just procrastinating and telling somebody, I don’t want to partner. That they’re not right fit for me. That I need to get them some tough feedback. That to me is my variance. Is that I know I want to work on something, I know I want to accomplish something but I just need the space and energy to do it. Versus I’m avoiding it at all costs.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes and yes.

Erin Fischer:
I need to have a tough conversation with somebody, it’s not going to be pretty or easy. And so that’s a classic procrastination tool for me is avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
And my natural state is, handle everything as quickly and as efficiently and as kindly as possible. But when we think about the work that we do, you know if you don’t want to partner with somebody, you’ve got that instinct inside of you that says, “This is not the right thing.” And that’s really different than saying, “I want to do this. And I need the time. I’m giving myself permission to take the time to figure it all out.”

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Yeah. So you talked about the journal already. Anything else you’ve been dreaming about doing just as a good reference or contexts for the people that listen. In the areas of permission, perfection, or procrastination, anything else you can think of? That you go, “Hmm.”

Danielle Ireland:
So the areas I procrastinate most I have to do, I think, with my career, I think I have invested so much of my teens and 20s into developing personal relationships and really getting in touch… I have the best friend group. I have really strong connections with my family and then my extended family that I feel like I cultivated and built. I have a lot of, I would say just… I mean my relationship with my husband is something that is a top priority for me and I’m really proud of the relationship that we have and the family that we’re building. So where I really see the procrastination come up for me the most in permission and perfectionism, it’s the work that I want to put out into the world and the work that I want to do. So I’m only clarifying that because whoever’s listening, where you may be holding yourself back may not be related to career at all. And so though my point of view is mainly focused on career, this might be applicable to you in love, in spirituality, in your sexual identity, sexuality.

Danielle Ireland:
I mean, there could be all different aspects of our life where this could be relevant but for me this is just what’s top of mind. But the other one, the other area that I… so we’re sitting in a space recording this podcast right now, that is completely set up with lights and all kinds of cute props for me to do more video work. And I have all the things. I have all the things. And I’m doing like this, kind of over the top theater movement with my fist right now like, “Gumption. Go get it.” I have everything I need to do more video work and create more blogs, more content than I know what to do with it and I’m just not. I’m just not doing it. I’m just not doing it.

Erin Fischer:
You know why?

Danielle Ireland:
Because it’s me saying what I think and putting it out there for people to have opinions about. And yeah, I think for so long I’ve been used to either selling someone else’s product or promoting someone else’s work or helping tell someone else’s story literally and figuratively, with my theater and commercial and film background. And the thing that I’m doing now is sharing my view, my spin, my take and my perspective. And I think it’s yeah, it comes down to probably the rejection piece and hearing the no. And that’s when the shame comes up like, “Who do you think you are? Like, bla bla bla bla. All the small thoughts I have about myself, all of the Walking Dead movie, that Walking Dead chatter in my head. Yeah, it’s just… And it was what’s wild is that and it’s so interesting, I don’t know at what point this lightens up, because I’ve already written blogs. I’ve already done… all the things I’m not currently doing this moment, I’ve already done. And it exists, and I’ve done it within the last year. I don’t know why it’s become hard for me again, but it has. It has.

Danielle Ireland:
Maybe it’s momentum. I don’t know. Or maybe permission to like, “Yeah, you haven’t been perfect with your consistency. And that’s okay. Just get back up and do it again.” Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Yeah. So from my seat and all the women that we know in common. You have this incredible perspective, because you also have the therapy side behind it. From our seats we’re like, “Please send out more content to us so that we can be happier, healthier human beings.” And isn’t it funny that we don’t say that to other people enough like, “I need you and you are so important.” I’m doing this series that you mentioned about walking with 30 women in the month of May. And I was giving myself a little bit of a hard time because I haven’t posted in the past seven days. Well, I’m heading out of town twice for two big projects. I just got back from a project late last night. I had a client in New York City who said they needed a proposal in 12 hours, which is super challenging to try and figure out the time in which to do that. And so then I was like, “It’s okay. Just because I walked with 30 women doesn’t mean that I have to post every single thing.”

Erin Fischer:
And then you get into that headspace, like you said of like, “I should never do it again, because I can’t even stay on time with writing the three paragraphs about my favorite women in the world.”

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And so again, I think I linked it back to that movie in my mind. But then I had three women who are like, “I can’t wait for you to post again.” I’ve been following this whole journey and I’ve learned so much. And I think that that… Okay, so let’s circle back again. It’s that permission piece, somebody sent to me, “I really love it.” Then all of a sudden it fired me up again. And so one of the pieces I always encourage for the people that I love and serve is that, we have got to be better cheerleaders for the people that we love.

Danielle Ireland:
That’s great.

Jump in the conversation HERE.

Erin Fischer:
We need to turn on the spotlights for all the people. I’ve got this philosophy that particularly as it relates to women, that women feel like there’s got to be one queen bee with one spotlight on. And my philosophy is different, I feel like every woman in the room can have a spotlight turned on, and there’s usually a woman trying to flip them all off because her ego is driving that moment. And my job in the world literally, I think my job in the world is to flip on all the spotlights after that woman has turned them all off. It’s just to come in and say, “Do not let her turn off your spotlight. I will flip this thing back on for you because the things that we are courageous enough to do need to have a space.”

Danielle Ireland:
Something that you said about being a better cheerleader for others. And I think it also as it relates to permission, there’s an expression and I wish I could think of exactly where it comes from. Because I love giving credit with quotes and other people’s great ideas. But it’s that when you get nervous, focus on service. So I think maybe when we get… and this could be a great way to get an actionable step for anyone listening. If you feel like maybe you are struggling to give yourself permission to pursue X, Y, or Z, maybe stop thinking about you in a kind way, just for a moment. And then how could you be of service or be a cheerleader or encourage someone else and just let them know that you love them? Because that to me, I mean yeah, showing up for other people is sometimes a great way for me to get out of my own head and out of my own way.

Erin Fischer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. We’ve covered a lot of ground today. And I am so grateful that we got the time to walk but also that we had the time to really process things. The people that I spend a lot of time and energy with, are people that are thinkers. I’m great for surface conversation for about 15 minutes, but I am more curious to spend time with people who are like, “I’ve got this thing that I’m processing and it’s not perfect yet, but I’ve…” And you brought that into my space really quickly in our walk and I thought, “Damn, we’re going to spend some quality time.” And I know that you had to leave it was Friday, two weeks ago and you had to head out. And I remember feeling like, “I need two more hours with this woman.”

Danielle Ireland:
“I need more time.”

Erin Fischer:
“I need more time.” Because you were thinking at, not just surface level ideas for the people that we serve. But you were digging deep and giving us some really good pointers. And my biggest takeaway from you is this piece on procrastination, may simply just be the part of our creative process. I also have been writing some content and my other takeaway is what permission slips do I need to start handing out to other folks?

Danielle Ireland:
Permission slips I actually love the action of writing a permission slip. That’s one of my favorite exercises to do personally and with clients. And it’s literally, like, it’s really funny. I have a couple of clients that are attorneys and they really put some heavy legal jargon like, “I hear 214 as the first party.” I mean, of course I don’t know how to do that. But I think writing a permission slip, there’s something about putting a pen to paper. Even if you want to write it later there’s something very kinesthetic and just, I think more emotionally connected about putting a pen to paper and giving yourself a physical permission slip to do this thing, that you’re afraid to do or that maybe you’re procrastinating on doing or you’re afraid won’t be perfect. I love writing permission slips. I think that’s a fantastic exercise. And I wanted to touch on one point real quick before I lose it.

Danielle Ireland:
When you were talking about perfectionism just a few moments ago, I realized that when I was… one of the things that’s been holding me back, or that I’ve been allowing to hold me back in terms of writing blogs and doing videos was that, because I think sometimes the language we use may not specifically be perfection. In our minds, we may not realize where it’s a perfectionism, we may not realize its permission, we may not identify it as the three piece. That’s just the alliteration that I like. But consistency, work life balance, self care, I think there’s a lot of other sneaky, sneaky language that kind of creeps into our minds. And I think sort of the social vocabulary that’s used a lot. I think a lot of people have turned… I’ve got a lot of women I work with have turned self care into a new form and work life balance as a new way to beat themselves down. “I’m not meditating enough. I’m not walking enough. I’m not drinking enough lemon water. I’m not juicing enough.” It’s like, it’s no longer fucking self care if it’s giving you anxiety. Right? And so I think that that’s become this do form of procrastination, or not procrastination, perfectionism.

Danielle Ireland:
But for me, I didn’t even realize it until like you triggered this thought for me. I think consistency. I have convinced myself which is what I think I spend so much energy trying to come up with this perfect plan, that will help me maintain consistency. Because if I’m not going to consistently blog, vlog or whatever, then I shouldn’t do it. And so then I stay stuck because it isn’t consistent. So I think maybe my gentle challenge to anyone listening is that what are the words that you use when you’re telling yourself you can’t do something or you’re telling yourself you should be doing something. For me, consistency is one. That’s like a measuring stick that I use to tell myself that I’m somehow I’m not enough, because I’m not consistent.

Erin Fischer:
Can I add one more story to this piece?

Danielle Ireland:
Please.

Erin Fischer:
So there have been just a few times in my life, where I’ve had some real heartache, had a breakup. And I can count on one hand the number of times. But recently, I have received an email from a woman who was, I had asked ger to write a chapter in my very first book, about three and a half years ago. And she had committed to writing this chapter. And then when I followed up with her she never returned my email or my phone call or my text. And so here we had saved this three pages, only three pages, but there’s space for her. And just a month ago, I got an email from her. And it was an apology letter that basically said, “I made this mistake. I had made a commitment to you and I couldn’t follow through on the commitment and I was so heartbroken that I couldn’t do it. But then what was worse is that I was heartbroken that I never followed through to tell you I couldn’t do it.” And she said for three and a half years intermittently, it had come up and just sparked this, you use the word shame. I think we use that word appropriately here too.

Erin Fischer:
And I remember emailing her back and also calling her and saying, “You know what, you never owed me an apology. Ever, ever, ever. You made a mistake.” And quite frankly, on more than 14, 28, 102 hands can tell you about the number of times I’ve made a mistake. And it was a reminder to me that sometimes you also need permission just to say, “I can’t do this. I’m not ready. It’s not time for me.” And also that, that you can come back and say, “I sort of own some of the things and the mistakes that I’ve made. It’s never too late to have those conversations.”

Danielle Ireland:
Well, I don’t think there’s ever an expiration date on taking ownership for or taking responsibility for something like that. So maybe you didn’t feel an apology was appropriate. But I also know that sometimes in my own life, I needed to say that I was sorry.

Erin Fischer:
That’s what she said.

Danielle Ireland:
And it actually wasn’t for the other person. I did something very similar where I actually sent an email. Gosh, how long ago was that? Maybe five years ago. And it was about something that had probably happened three years prior. But I was listening to Amy Poehler’s Yes Please. Love her book. And she talked about writing a similar apology letter. And it was just, it came to me in an instant. I was like, “I need to do that. I need to make this right for myself.” And I don’t think there’s ever too much time that’s passed. Because if it’s still unsettled in you, that’s what needs to be addressed. And that’s what she did and good for her. And good for you for holding the space to honor that for her too.

Erin Fischer:
Yeah. That piece on, going easy on other women. Going easy, taking care of other women. Allowing them to have the permission to do what they need to do but also giving them the space and your friendship for that.

Danielle Ireland:
Well, the way you responded to that, what that actually tells me is that you have really done your own work because I think the level of criticism or critical judgmental thoughts we hold to others, is always reflection and how we feel or treat ourselves. I think when we’re quick to judge, place blame, point fingers, find faults. It’s easier for us to point fingers at other people or maybe hold on to that resentment. That’s usually a reflection on our own healing, on our own work that hasn’t been resolved. And so you have enough compassion, awareness, empathy for yourself, that because you have that reserved within you, you could also hold that space for someone else. Because I could also see in a very different conversation with a different person, someone being like, “That’s right. That’s right. You did that to me.” I mean, I could just as easily see that though that isn’t what you did. But I think it’s hard to get to a space to accept someone else’s mistake. Because if we’re intolerant of our own mistakes, how can we be tolerant of others?

Erin Fischer:
So that is the whole beginning of our conversation.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Is just giving ourselves a little room to breathe and not be so damn hard on ourselves all the time. Because we’ve got some good things that the world needs. You got to make a move. So I have to say, “I have to be healthy for one reason only. I have so many ideas. I’ve got to at least get to 100.”

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
Deliver on, because I’m freaking eating bananas and carrots and-

Danielle Ireland:
Kale.

Erin Fischer:
Kale.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And only olive oil and not avocado ranch which is what I really want. Because I have to get to a hundred because I have so many things I want to accomplish. I don’t have enough time to do it.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah. You need to write a bookshelf worth of books.

Erin Fischer:
I don’t know about that.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah, yeah. You need more books.

Erin Fischer:
I think I’m done on the books. But I want to fill… I’m going to put it out to the universe. I want to fill a whole entire stadium of women, where we support the development of their dreams.

Danielle Ireland:
Okay. This is the moment and you put it out there. And I’m going to be in the stadium.

Erin Fischer:
You’re going to be speaking.

Danielle Ireland:
Okay, I’m going to be on the stage at the stadium.

Erin Fischer:
You’re going to be on the stage.

Danielle Ireland:
And be like, “I remember this moments. Oh I love it . And I love that all of these wonderful dreamy statements are now recorded, so we can refer back to this when you have that stadium full.

Erin Fischer:
We’re going to play this recording on stage.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
I’m going to name it. Within three years, we’re going to fill a stadium full of women. And all we want to do is say, “What is your dream? Here’s your permission slip. Don’t worry about the perfectionism piece. And you know what, take this space to call it procrastination or the creative process. But whatever it is, you’re going to be in charge of that piece. You’re going to own that.” I’m going to open it up and just say, “Today’s the day. You all have been holding on to things that you really want to do, and we are going to let you have the full space to do them all.”

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s powerful.

Erin Fischer:
Let’s do it.

Danielle Ireland:
Chills. Let’s do it. Three years done.

Erin Fischer:
Within three years. So I’m thinking we’re going to do it in two.

Danielle Ireland:
Okay. Oh, God, it just gets more ambitious by the minute. I just love it. So, Erin, I want to gently take the baton from you for a moment because as a self proclaimed leadership nerd. And this is language I pulled from your website obviously, but I want to know specifically, where did your passion for developing leadership and developing leaders come from?

Erin Fischer:
So two things. Number one, people ask this question and I never had a full path. But I had a pattern. So I started my career out as a camp director. My favorite part-

Danielle Ireland:
I bet you were an amazing camp director. I can see it.

Erin Fischer:
I loved being outside and being in flip flops more than anything.

Danielle Ireland:
Oh yes.

Erin Fischer:
I don’t look cute in tie dye t-shirts. But that was my wardrobe, every single summer for four summers.

Danielle Ireland:
Who does look good entirely, except maybe Justin Bieber. I don’t know anyone who’s gotten tie and dye, bu go ahead.

Erin Fischer:
Every Friday for four years of my life. Every Friday. So the piece for me that I loved was the training and development of college students, who are all of my camp counselors. I love investing in them. Then in return international nonprofit. And I was training hundreds and hundreds of volunteers all over the world. And I was living for the days where I would be in front of them, just probably singing a camp song, if I’m been honest, to get them warmed up. But just investing and making training really fun and interesting and experiential for them. Then I worked for a nonprofit for five years doing just leadership development for women. And I was speaking more and more in a paid position as opposed to you are, this is just part of your job. This was my job, not just a portion of it. And I could feel that at the beginning, I was horrible. Like really, really bad. But I just pursued it over and over again because it wasn’t so much that I loved the adoration as much as I loved the relationships that came out of it.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
I love the connection and the storytelling piece. And then five years ago, I started my own company, and we call it the Anti-Lecture Agency. I was tired of going to trainings, sitting in the back rows, close to the back door as possible so that I could sneak out because I knew that somebody was going to pop up in a PowerPoint and bore me to tears. And I just wanted the three big takeaways. But more importantly, I wanted to hear their story. And so then I thought, “I can make money doing this.” That was part two. “I want to make money.” And I’m not, as a woman, as a business owner we don’t talk about money enough.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
There was part of it. It’s like, “Can I really make more money than all of my best guy friends do?” Because we know that that men are making more money than women are?

Danielle Ireland:
Yep.

Erin Fischer:
And so I also had the secret ambition to say, “Can I, without anybody else knowing, can I really kick ass and make some money and do what I love to do?” It was a challenge for me.

Danielle Ireland:
I love that. Kick ass, make money and do what I love to do. I like that needs to be on a t-shirt. Kick ass, make money and do what you love to do.

Erin Fischer:
Write that down.

Danielle Ireland:
Okay.

Erin Fischer:
Let’s do this.

Danielle Ireland:
Okay. Let’s do this.

Erin Fischer:
I want Mickey Busch-

Danielle Ireland:
T-shirts.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah. Nickey Busch makes the best t-shirts. Best t-shirts.

Erin Fischer:
You know I have to tell you while you’re writing that down, we do have some of the most incredible women, that show up for us regularly and who are on our team. I mean, we could probably count 14 women in our small group who are small business owners, who are doing so much work in our community and hold us accountable. Light us up. Give us permission. We are fiercely lucky.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
With the crew that we’ve got.

Danielle Ireland:
Well, I would say that when preparation meets opportunity, that’s also when luck happens. Because I don’t know if I would have ever met this group had I not, tried to launch out on my own because I think that’s how this group found me. We were all kind of scrambling and struggling. And we were like, “Oh, you’re here too. Do you want to be friends?” But I think that’s to your point about cheerleading and supporting one another. One of the most beautiful things about the people that I’ve been so fortunate to get connected with, which almost all of them I think have been featured on this podcast, at least once so far. Is that every time someone in that group sends out an email blast or sends a group text or like says, “Hey, this is what’s going on, or I need help with this, or I need feedback with this.”

Danielle Ireland:
Without question, without question there’s always… and the response, some responses are immediate, some responses are a couple days later, but there’s always a response. Because I think the worst form of rejection is being ignored. And just all that connectivity is so so hugely important.

Erin Fischer:
I think we text better than any screwed sixth grade group of girls I’ve ever met. I think it’s 6:05 in the morning until about midnight. We are texting each other about something for sure.

Danielle Ireland:
Oh, so I cannot leave this episode with you without asking the quintessential question. So Erin Fischer what is your cut your own bang moment?

Erin Fischer:
I know you’re going to ask me this. And I don’t know that if got a… I did have a really bad perm, which I think is still persisting because I had it in sixth grade with the hormones were off the charts. And I think the hormones and the chemicals from that perm have rendered a always curly, crazy, unmanageable hair. Nobody believes me. I’ll send pictures what it looks like.

Danielle Ireland:
Yes.

Erin Fischer:
But I think this idea of what’s a full force idea that I had that I really had to rethink and reconsider. I think what I really tried to do is say, “What can I do that would make me feel wildly alive regularly?”

Danielle Ireland:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erin Fischer:
And I think where I struggle with this question is that, I’ve tried to get to a space where I don’t have a whole lot of regrets.

Danielle Ireland:
I think the takeaway from a cut your own bang moment is usually, if not only if it’s something that we can laugh at, because usually I think children and young people in particular, have this really powerful combination, like an intoxicating combination of arrogance and ignorance. They have no life experience but all the confidence in the world, which is why I think a lot of puff pain, bad haircut, crazy fashion choices happen because in that moment, I felt like a unicorn. Like, “Here I am world.” But I think beyond funny childhood moments or bad haircuts, it’s something that you went into with one expectation and left learning something else about yourself. I don’t know if every cut your own bang moment is necessarily a regret or a disappointment, but like, “Whoa, I definitely could have benefited from asking for help or asking for someone’s support.” Something like that.

Erin Fischer:
So I don’t know that I have a moment but I think that I’m a curator of that moment for other people. And I was just trying to surrey with one of my friends the other day. Is that the place where I learned the most is when I travel. When I’m in a new city, when I’m tasting new food, when I’m meeting somebody interesting and fascinating, when I’m presenting and I have this really cool conversation with somebody at the end of all of it. One of my favorite things to do in turn then, is to help other people have the opportunity to travel. So one of the ways that I do that is they travel with all my nieces and nephews. I’m heading to San Francisco next week, as a graduation gifts for my oldest niece to just spend some quality time with her before she heads to college.

Erin Fischer:
But a few years ago, I was doing service immersion trips to Hawaii. And one of the things that we do on the first days, we get on a double-decker-high-ropes-course at YMCA Camp Erdman on the North Shore of Oahu. You all this is where they filmed Lost actually.

Danielle Ireland:
Awesome.

Erin Fischer:
So it is remote. It’s beautiful. It’s serene. And for say, we’re up at 4 a.m. Pacific Time change . And all hanging out and I’m prepping the women that we serve, to go up on this double-decker-high-ropes-course. And as we get up there like nine o’clock in the morning, what ends up happening is that one of the women on our team, climbs up this big cargo net to the first layer. And she steps out onto the first element of this ropes course and she panics and freezes. And she is feeling like she can’t do it. And because in my excitement, and the fact that I’m one element away from her, she starts to climb down before I can even have a coaching conversation with her. And I sat in that regret for two hours up on the ropes course. All through lunch, all through the next activity.

Erin Fischer:
And even two or three days later, I still felt like, “Erin Fischer, it was your job to show up to be the coach, the team member, the supporter, the guider, the cheerleader and you let being too far apart from her on this element, get in the way of it.” And so I did a little bit of finagling and some requesting and I said, “I need to get her back up there. But I can’t have the whole team. I need to be doing this with her.” So I walked over to her and asked for her permission. I said, “I’ve requested this. How do you feel about it? Because I’m feeling so regretful. And I don’t think I can leave this island until you at least put on the gear one more time and cross over one element with me.” And she looks at me and she said, “Okay, I’m in.”

Danielle Ireland:
Wow.

Erin Fischer:
And without hesitation, which I thought I would really have to use some negotiation skills in a way. So we ended up doing this thing called the tango tower if I remember correctly. It’s a little bit of a different element, but the height is even higher than the ropes courses. So we gear up, we start climbing and I’m feeling this bit of excitement for her but also a little bit of excitement for me, I’m like, “Yes, you’re good at your job, Erin. Good job, you got her up here.” And then I realized this was not about me at all, and not about my ego and not about my fear of leaving the island without having supported her. This is about her. And I actually got off the element and I let her climb all the way to the top. Now, I have to tell you, it was not easy. There were some crying, some cuss words, some screaming probably from both of us at some point. And she got to the top and I started sobbing. I mean, I just… and try not to let her see that but it was overwhelming to me to think about the number of times that I wish somebody would have pushed me or asked me or given me a do over.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
And she got to the bottom and she hugged me and we cried a little bit more. And she said, “You know I have to tell you something.” And I said, “Whatever it is, I’m ready for it.” She said, “You know, you don’t know this but my dad is blind. And my whole entire life I have been getting permission to opt out of anything I wanted to because my dad’s blind. And there’s so many extra things that we have to do to care for him financially, emotionally, physically.” And she said, “So I got to say no, just about whatever I wanted to say no to, as a result of having this part of my life. So you’re the first person in my life, whoever didn’t let me opt out of something.”

Danielle Ireland:
Wow.

Erin Fischer:
And I thought to myself, “I need to do that more often.” Probably that’s why I said to the woman, “Asked for the damn day off between Thanksgiving and the weekend.” And probably I had a conversation with one of my friends that we know very well, to push her to put out of her comfort zone in her own business. And so for me, it’s like, I’ve had enough regrets in my life. And I don’t want to be the person that didn’t cheerlead and support for you, so that you felt like you could opt out of something. If you really want to do it, I’ll never push you, but I’m certainly not going to be the woman that doesn’t say, “What about trying one more time.”

Danielle Ireland:
Well, sometimes what we need is someone to be like, “Are you sure?” When someone’s like, “I can’t.” And sometimes we have that deep deep knowingness inside that’s like, “No, no, no, this is absolutely not for me.” But then there are other times where it’s just fear talking, or it’s just perfection, permission, procrastinate. Well, sometimes it’s one of those and I think that’s when we need that person in our corner to say, “Are you sure? Are you sure?” Because if you get the question, are you sure? And is anything other than yes, then chances are you need to get your bass. You’re like back up on those ropes, right?

Erin Fischer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Yeah. So I think that’s been, so the travel piece for me is transformational. And also helping other women just get out of their own way.

Danielle Ireland:
Perfect. Final question. And then I will let you go with the rest of your day because you’ve given me so much great content this episode. I cannot wait for everyone to get to listen to it. So thinking about your 100-year-old self, right? B because you’re eating the kale and you’re having the olive oil and you’re not having the avocado ranch because you are going to be here, you’re going to celebrate your 100th birthday. You’ve already filled stadiums, right? You’ve high fived all the most important people that you would want to meet in your life. You’ve accomplished the dreams and you’re sitting back in this rocking chair and you’re looking at your life. And you can in that future self, you can whisper a piece of advice to your current self right now. What would your future amazing 100 year old self tell you right now?

Erin Fischer:
I think it’s easy. And I think the answer is you already have it in you.

Danielle Ireland:
Ah, like Wizard of Oz.

Erin Fischer:
It’s already there.

Danielle Ireland:
Yeah.

Erin Fischer:
Your job is just to tap into it.

Danielle Ireland:
Oh, that’s so good. Thank you, Erin. Thank you, Erin Fischer. Thank you so much for spending this hour and some change with me. And such a joy. Such a joy spending more time with you and I look forward to doing it again and again. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to another episode of season three of Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs. I don’t want to slow down your momentum. If you’re in the middle of a binge, you keep going. You’ve got this. Just a couple more episodes left. Keep listening. If you need a break, too. I totally get it. I completely understand. Whatever you need, I am here for you. And to that end, let me hear from you. Leave a comment, rate, review, subscribe or shoot me a message at danielle@danielleireland.com. Either way I hope you continue having an awesome day. I hope your day was maybe a little bit better after listening to this. But keep on keeping on and thanks again for listening.

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